Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back. We are coming off of National Consumer Protection Week. It actually runs through tomorrow. So we thought this would be a good opportunity to learn about the latest unfortunately in scams. What's going on, what happened if you do become a victim and how to prevent yourself from becoming a victim. So Jean Foy from Massburg is back with us, our friend just down the road here in Weymouth, and she's brought two colleagues as well from different agencies, all under the umbrella of the State Attorney General's office. So welcome, Gene. Nice to see you again.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: Nice to see you again, John.
[00:00:31] Speaker A: And Jen Koch is here and Robin Schwartz as well. Thank you. And Jen, let's get the titles right before we get any further. Program manager for MetroWest Local Consumer Program.
[00:00:41] Speaker C: That's correct.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: Okay. And Robin, program manager for Worcester Consumer Rights Program.
[00:00:46] Speaker D: Correct.
[00:00:46] Speaker A: Okay. But all under the umbrella, Gene, of the State Attorney General's office. Is that how it works?
[00:00:51] Speaker B: Yeah, the Attorney General's office has what they call local consumer program and they have 18 agencies across the state. They could government or private nonprofit agencies that work to assist the consumers at the grass level. So we're all in a local community. So if a consumer has a problem, they can come to a local office. If they don't want to go into Boston to the Attorney General's office.
And I handle Quincy, so I would be the one, if anyone who's watching this is from Quincy, they have a problem, they can call me directly, they can come to my office. I can give them advice and guidance on consumers.
[00:01:26] Speaker A: Okay, good, good. And all the agencies are nonprofit. Are they volunteer run?
[00:01:32] Speaker C: Oh, no, we're located in Natick Metro West Local Consumer Program. But we service 17 or 18 towns in that area.
Natick, Framingham, Sudbury, Acton, Sherborne.
And we are a nonprofit, we're part of Metro West Mediation Services.
And so each year the program is grant funded.
So there are. It's a mix of volunteer and employees.
[00:01:54] Speaker A: Employees.
[00:01:55] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:01:55] Speaker A: Same. Robin for you?
[00:01:56] Speaker D: Yeah, we're the Worcester Consumer Rights Program. The name is Wooster, but We serve almost 30 communities, including Worcester, mostly in the Worcester area. A few from Metro west. And we are a combination of paid part time and we also have two volunteers as well.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: But some of the locals are run by city government agencies. City of Boston has one.
Who else has one? New bedfit, I believe has one.
But I think we're all private nonprofits. Right.
[00:02:29] Speaker A: And all kind of arms of the Attorney General's office, right?
[00:02:33] Speaker B: Yeah, we work in cooperation with them and we're funded by them. So our offices follow their guidelines on how to provide consumer advocacy. Everything that's filed in our office is on file with the Attorney General's office for tracking purposes.
Yeah. So we do work in cooperation with them.
[00:02:49] Speaker A: And the goal, I'm guessing, of all 10, three of the organizations is consumer protection.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: Right.
[00:02:54] Speaker A: To handling consumer complaints.
[00:02:56] Speaker C: Yeah. We support consumers in their complaints and issues with businesses.
And it's a free service. So it's a court avoidance and it's just support. And it also, I would say it also helps local businesses. Right. Because they can avoid further disputes and going to court over things as well.
[00:03:13] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:03:14] Speaker C: It's a community service.
[00:03:16] Speaker D: And we also try to do education because there are sort of those teaching moments when you're talking to a consumer and maybe they are in a problem with a card purchase.
[00:03:28] Speaker A: It's a good example.
[00:03:29] Speaker D: Maybe they didn't have. Hadn't had it checked out by a mechanic, you know, before buying. And so, you know, without judging them. Those are good opportunities for education. We also do a lot of outreach. We do like this, for example.
[00:03:43] Speaker A: Right.
[00:03:44] Speaker B: And we're also a referral agency. We will refer people to the right place if it's an issue that we can't handle. For example, scams.
We can try to handle a scam, but if it's a criminal, they're probably not going to respond to us. So there are agencies that track and have a lot of educational material, and we can kind of direct them in the right place, point them toward, like, a course of action that they can follow when they have a problem.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: Okay, so why don't we focus on scams then today? Because we only have a short time, unfortunately, to talk. And as I mentioned, since we're coming off National Consumer Protection Week, which Jean, is what?
[00:04:22] Speaker B: So National Consumer Protection week started in 1998, and the federal Trade Commission decided that they wanted to take a week where they got together federal, state and local consumer agencies to empower consumers and let them know what their rights are. They do tend to focus a lot on scams because that does seem to be a big problem, identity theft fraud scams. And we just, all the agencies take that week to get out in the community and hold events and publish information.
It's just a great way to make consumers aware of what their rights are.
[00:04:57] Speaker A: So let's talk about what you're seeing, Gene, in our area in terms of scams right now. What do people need to be aware of?
[00:05:05] Speaker B: So, I mean, just we had the storm recently, so a scam that I saw was a lot of people on Facebook, on social media were looking for people to plow their driveways. And they would say, I need you to come plow my driveway. And then they get a message from a plow company saying, we can do it, but we need X amount of dollars to get you on the list.
People would send them the money through a payment provider, Zelle, something like that. And then the person wouldn't show up. There was even one instance where someone was a little bit savvy and she said, I need to have my driveway plowed, but I'm not home.
The plow person said, send me a picture of your driveway. I'll give you a quote.
[00:05:49] Speaker D: She did.
[00:05:51] Speaker B: Later he sent her a picture, same picture that she sent him. But he used AI to remove all the snow. And he said, job's done, send me the money, send me the money. She looked and she noticed her car, it was still in the picture. He forgot to take the car out. That was the only reason why she knew that she was being scammed.
So, you know, there's a lot out there.
[00:06:12] Speaker A: Yeah, it's frustrating and scary to think. Right. Because.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: And they latch onto emergencies and situations
[00:06:20] Speaker A: like that and family situations as well. You know, that example you just gave, that was all electronically, you know, mediated. There was no.
[00:06:28] Speaker B: Yeah, there was no face to face contact. There was no plow company.
And it was all done online.
[00:06:35] Speaker A: Could they have gotten that money back if they had been scammed out of it?
[00:06:39] Speaker B: Probably not.
If you can't find the person, you can't get the money back.
[00:06:43] Speaker A: Right. It's gone, it's done. Jen, how about from your perspective in the metro west area?
[00:06:49] Speaker C: We haven't had that particular issue. That's egregious.
I've noticed actually kind of the opposite. Face to face scams or high pressure door to door sales.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: I thought that would be the one area where we could finally have some control.
[00:07:03] Speaker C: Right, right. Well, you can. There is a.
So it's typically home improvement.
It's also, you know, alternative energy proposals. You know, sign up for this plan for this 25 year contract.
[00:07:15] Speaker A: Let me just see your utility bill.
[00:07:17] Speaker C: Right, yeah, I'll sign you. Right. Sign on this dotted line. You know, this will just take a minute. And then you'll have all these savings and you'll help the earth. And so a lot of the same things, you know, high pressure situations, things to watch out for, you know, someone who can only take, you know, payment in cash.
A lot of times that people are approached, you know, we're working in your neighborhood so really only today, tomorrow can we do this work for you. And we notice that your, you know, your walkway is crumbling.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: Sense of urgency.
[00:07:43] Speaker C: Yeah, sense of urgency. And you know, again, we would just recommend to people to take your time if it's something like that. You want to get other quotes, you want to check references, you want to find out if they're licensed and insured.
And you also, you know, a lot of municipalities now have do not knock lists that you can sign up for so you can notify them. I do not want any solicitors to come to my door.
Yeah. And then when those people register, become authorized solicitors, they're to be given a list of these addresses that they're not supposed to approach.
Another point I wanted to just share is that there's also a three day cooling off period. So if you do sign a contract with someone at your door, you do have three days to cool down and sort of, if you rethink that or if there's a problem, you can go ahead and cancel.
[00:08:27] Speaker A: Do they have to disclose that at the time?
[00:08:29] Speaker C: They do, yeah. Yeah. So that's a built in protection for people who are approached at their door. Yeah. So that's the in person. There's plenty of online scams going on
[00:08:41] Speaker A: as well for certain.
[00:08:41] Speaker C: Yeah, unfortunately.
[00:08:43] Speaker A: How about in the Worcester area?
[00:08:44] Speaker D: Yeah, a lot of what Jen was talking about, you know, when you're talking about people saying especially not maybe now, but you know, come spring, summer, the paving, that's a big one. And what Jen was saying, oh, I'm in your area.
That gives people, I think, a sort of a sense of, well, they weren't my neighbors and everything was okay there. Like this sort of safety, illusion of safety.
But yeah, we've seen the same kinds of things and the solar is a big one as Jen was talking about.
So we get people who say, well, someone came to my door and they told me I was never going to have to pay another electric bill, another utility bill. And that's not the case, they're paying more. Or they found out that now after 25 years, the term of the loan for the solar system is huge amount of money that they didn't expect or that they were going to get. They were told they were going to get tax credits that they never got.
So we see a lot of that. We were talking before the show about a couple of us have seen a situation where one of my colleagues worked with a consumer who she. And it was a vulnerable population and someone came to the door and was pushing for some kind of sale. And this consumer held back and said, no, I'm not going to do it. Had to keep saying that a couple of times. And then finally the person who had come to the door said, well, can you just sign this thing to show that, you know, I've been here so my boss knows I did the work? You know, they kind of appeal to that. You know, you're like, oh, well, I don't want this person to get in trouble. You know, they appeal to that. So she signed it. It turned out she was signing a contract, not a I've been here for work.
But our colleague was able to get her out of the contract.
[00:10:39] Speaker A: So are there, in listening to all these stories, are there kind of common denominators, if you will, or common red flags with any type of scam that folks should be aware of that puts their sense of alert up and says, wait a minute, let's just hold on here a second.
What are some things that folks should look for?
[00:11:01] Speaker B: Number one, that sense of urgency.
If someone's pressuring you to do it right now, it's a scam. There's never a reason why you need to do anything in that exact moment. If they don't give you an opportunity to verify, to get other estimates, you need to walk away.
[00:11:19] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:11:20] Speaker D: And have a little tougher skin.
Because I've had people say, well, you know, I gave them all the money up front because they told me that they needed the money because their car broke down. And they go, the contractor went through this whole story. So they give them, Instead of the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 rule, they give them everything. And of course the person, the contractor disappears. So maybe a little like, I know it's nice to have empathy for our friends and neighbors.
[00:11:47] Speaker A: Everybody wants to be a nice person.
[00:11:49] Speaker D: Yeah. But, you know, there is that trying to be a little.
[00:11:52] Speaker B: So practice saying cynical.
Practice it.
Assert yourself.
[00:11:57] Speaker C: No, Right.
[00:11:59] Speaker A: No, it's a good point. Yeah.
[00:12:00] Speaker D: No, let me think about it.
[00:12:01] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:12:02] Speaker A: Right.
[00:12:02] Speaker D: You know, and if somebody isn't going to let you think about it, that should be a red flag.
[00:12:07] Speaker A: So, okay, so I'm going to tell you, Robin, I'm going to think about it. So you're going to come back and say, okay, when should I come back?
[00:12:13] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:12:15] Speaker A: Any type of aggressive.
[00:12:17] Speaker C: Right.
[00:12:17] Speaker D: And that, again, is a red flag.
[00:12:20] Speaker C: Right, right. And it is tricky because sometimes it's very convincing. You know, like these in person scams. We had a case where somebody was approached at their doorstep and they said, you know, your roof looks like it's deteriorating in the back. We really ought to check it out. And then they went down this path of, oh, we found additional damage. And they kept. And there was a large amount of money and there was no good intentions involved. So, you know, you get concerned. My roof, the safety of my home. And so it's. So people are sophisticated, unfortunately. And the same thing with the technology scams.
You know, there's voice cloning now and people, you know, there's even scams, you know, the grandparents scam, maybe that's died down a little bit, but people calling it. Hasn't you been hearing about that?
[00:13:05] Speaker B: Well, I honestly think with the current events with kidnapping, it's gonna bring it back up to the surface. They've also done a twist on it where it's a pet that they look at the lost pet on social media and then they say, I found your pet.
He's in emergency services. We need money to get him out or you need to pay this so they can do the service. So they're changing, they're making it better. With the voice cloning, it's more believable. But the pet one is just a take on it. They keep twisting it and changing it.
[00:13:35] Speaker A: It's preying on your emotions. Right. Your sense of urgency. It's really exasperating to hear these stories because the technology is getting so much better. Voice cloning, picture altering.
Unless you're like, we are right here, right now, face to face, in person, able to talk and look eye to eye. How do you know?
How do you know for certain? Yeah, you really don't.
[00:13:57] Speaker B: The rule of thumb is if it's digital, voice, picture, image, assume it's a fake and look at it and verify. Verify through a verifiable source.
[00:14:08] Speaker D: Always go back to that original source, you know?
[00:14:12] Speaker B: Right. If you get a letter from Social Security Administration saying you can download your statement, don't click that link. Go to the Social Security Administration website that you've already pre, verified and written down somewhere. Or you look at a statement that you have and see if there's some way. A lot of times, like the Social Security Administration, they'll have fraud alerts right up on their website if they know what's going on. Unless you're the first one who got that scam, there's probably something out there warning you that it's a scam. Yeah.
[00:14:40] Speaker D: Like Easy Drive, you know, Easy Drive mask.
[00:14:42] Speaker A: That was a common one.
So pause, think, verify.
[00:14:47] Speaker C: Yes. And I think it's also helpful if you even reach out to a friend or your neighbor or your sibling. I just got this call. Like what do you think? And then they might help you kind of unwind it and just that extra
[00:14:58] Speaker A: few minutes sounds like maybe a good rule of thumb is if you didn't initiate the contact, if you didn't make a call yourself or if you didn't send a letter yourself, if you're being cold called or cold lettered or cold door knocked.
[00:15:11] Speaker C: Yes. Right.
[00:15:12] Speaker A: Be careful.
[00:15:13] Speaker D: Right.
[00:15:13] Speaker B: Any unexpected communication.
[00:15:15] Speaker D: Pause and a lot of. I'm sorry, go ahead. A lot of the businesses now are saying I get emails or I see it on the website. They're saying we will never ask you for. And they list all those confidential things just to keep their trying to educate people.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: Right?
[00:15:30] Speaker A: Absolutely. We have a couple minutes left. But I do want to talk about the shame factor.
I think it's important to point out if you do become a victim and anybody can, we're all vulnerable.
But you're ashamed to talk about it. That can perpetuate that. Right, Robin?
[00:15:46] Speaker D: Yes. I've had people say to me, I've worked in the Police Department for 40 years before I retired and I still fell for it. And there is so much of that shame, that self blame and especially people who are older, they're afraid their family members are going to make financial decisions about them.
But we're all making the same mistakes. You know, we get in a hurry, we get fooled and it can happen to anybody. Absolutely.
[00:16:12] Speaker B: So the opposite. Talk about it. Tell people about the scam so that they don't fall for that scam. Also, try to stay informed. The FTC has consumer alerts you can sign up for. The BBB has a scam tracker.
If you're on social media, use that for your own good. Try to see what's going on in the world so that you know and you a light bulb will go up when you're approached with something.
[00:16:35] Speaker A: Sure. Jen, anything else you'd like to add?
[00:16:37] Speaker C: I actually did sign up for that FTC consumer alert you get. I think it's a weekly email and it's all the trends that are going on. It's really helpful. It's helpful because we're in this field, but it's also helpful to know about and kind of just stay on guard. Yeah. And talk about it.
[00:16:51] Speaker A: Knowledge is power.
[00:16:52] Speaker C: Knowledge is power. Yes.
[00:16:54] Speaker A: Thank you all. I hope we shed some light on the issue for folks and if nothing else, have them reach out, try and get more information.
[00:17:01] Speaker C: Thank you very much. Thank you so much for having us.
